Olias as MM? - Guild Wars Forums

Zapper901 · Feb 08, 2007, 12:45 AM // 00:45

I have tried making Olias a MM, but he seems to be terrible at it. He hardly ever animates anything unless I tell him to, and rarely uses BotM unless I tell him to. He spends his time spamming Death Nova on them most of the time. Is there a way to get him to MM better?

CyberMesh0 · Feb 08, 2007, 01:04 AM // 01:04

I've never had any major issues, he uses my MM build quite well. Might just be that I don't use death nova, I don't know. None of his skills are deactivated, correct?

DeanBB · Feb 08, 2007, 01:06 AM // 01:06

For heroes, arrange their skills from left to right in the order you want them used. Place the animates at far left then BotM, then whatever else. That way what you want them to do is prioritized by skill position.

I don't use Death Nova either and have no trouble. How high is Soul Reaping, is he just running out of energy?

Kuldebar Valiturus · Feb 08, 2007, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Heroes should work identically, AI-wise all things being equal...

I use Master of Whispers and Olias as MM on different occasions, I don't recall any problems.

Sir Seifus Halbred · Feb 08, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeanBB

For heroes, arrange their skills from left to right in the order you want them used. Place the animates at far left then BotM, then whatever else. That way what you want them to do is prioritized by skill position.

I don't use Death Nova either and have no trouble. How high is Soul Reaping, is he just running out of energy?

Hmm really? Are you sure? I didn't know you should arrange them in the order you want used.

Hockster · Feb 08, 2007, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Skill placement has no bearing on their priority. They use the skills based on code. But some skills aren't used very well. Heroes are terrible with Death Nova, just remove it form thier skillbar. Other than that they do an excellent job as MM's. When I run my own MM, I can't bring Olias along as I almost never get a corspe. He's just too fast.

sykoone · Feb 08, 2007, 02:12 AM // 02:12

I've tried running Olias as an MM and a minion bomber. He's always filled both roles perfectly for me.

Zinger314 · Feb 08, 2007, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Death Nova is not a MM skill! It's a minion bombing skill. Both are completely builds.

The best MM skillbar for Olias is as follows:

Animate Bone Horror
Animate Bone Fiend
Blood of the Master
Order of Undeath (e)
Signet of Lost Souls
Leech Signet
Power Drain
Res Signet

Everyone has the misconception that Death Nova is a must for MinioN mastery, whereas you only really need 2 skills; a Minion spell and BotM.

Kuldebar Valiturus · Feb 08, 2007, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeanBB

For heroes, arrange their skills from left to right in the order you want them used. Place the animates at far left then BotM, then whatever else. That way what you want them to do is prioritized by skill position.

I don't use Death Nova either and have no trouble. How high is Soul Reaping, is he just running out of energy?

I knew this applied to Henchies at one time, thought it was fixed after the Henchie AI and Hero patch...

Also, I have my Minions spells on the right with BoTM on the farthest right...Death Nova toward the left.

As of last play session, Master of Whispers was casting all very reliably for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Death Nova is not a MM skill! It's a minion bombing skill. Both are completely builds.
...

Everyone has the misconception that Death Nova is a must for MinioN mastery, whereas you only really need 2 skills; a Minion spell and BotM.

Blech! Honestly, the way builds are named we could call it Whipsnoodleblam Build. It's not like build names are based on some kind of scientific hierarchy that's been absolutely defined via rigid, established standards.

Zinger314 · Feb 08, 2007, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuldebar Valiturus

IBlech! Honestly, the way builds are named we could call it Whipsnoodleblam Build. It's not like build names are based on some kind of scientific hierarchy that's been absolutely defined via rigid, established standards.

So it's practical for Olias to use 2 seconds to cast Death Nova instead of using those 2 seconds to help create another minion or cast a BOTM? Keepinga constant army of 10 minions is a much more reliable source of damage than risking them die with Death Nova. (Especially since the AI can be very tempermental with it.)

The OP asked why the MM build wasn't working, Death Nova is the cause, plain and simple. God forbid I be reasonable.

Zapper901 · Feb 08, 2007, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Thanks everyone, I'll take Death Nova off his bar. By the way, he was nowhere near running out of energy because I was doing Vizuna Square (which has alot of dying things). It was just he was spamming Death Nova as much as he could.

GloryFox · Feb 08, 2007, 03:04 AM // 03:04

I agree with zinger (even though I use death nova sometimes

) Death nova creates issues for Olias as a MM..

Also I would look as see what order your skills are listed for Olias. HERO's seem to place levels of importance on where you place a skill on your skill bar. If you have Death Nova on hot key 1 then he will primarly place Death Nova on everyone and everything.

Minion Spells
BOTM

then anything else..

Res SIG last of course.

Lonesamurai · Feb 08, 2007, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Olias and Master of whispers are better than any human Minion master can ever be... because they can keep track of minion health bars

Kuldebar Valiturus · Feb 08, 2007, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapper901

Thanks everyone, I'll take Death Nova off his bar. By the way, he was nowhere near running out of energy because I was doing Vizuna Square (which has alot of dying things). It was just he was spamming Death Nova as much as he could.

I find exploding Minions highly effective, myself. Whispers uses it a lot and I don't view it as detrimental.

Quote:

For 30 seconds, if target ally dies, all adjacent foes take 26...85 damage and are Poisoned for 15 seconds.

It doesn't kill the Minion, it only triggers when the Minion dies...

**cosyfiep** · Feb 08, 2007, 04:09 AM // 04:09

wow my olias is a better mm than any of my characters could be....today I was watching him and even though he is only level 19 he had 10 minions going!.....not sure how since I have problems keeping 8 ------
cant wait to cap jagged bones so all of my olias' can use it (gotta get a toon with necro to the realm to cap it......)....and I usually make my olias' n/mo ---like to have another rezzer in the group.

strcpy · Feb 08, 2007, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Order of skills does matter, you can re-arrange most skill bars and they will behave differently.

All things being equal going left to right seems to decrease in priority, though many spells have priority of near 100% - death nova being one of them. For instance, lets say you have both Heal Area and Karei's Healing Circle on your skill bar (yes, I know that would mostly suck - I picked them because they should have the same priority and same trigger) it will cast the one on the left first. In short, the AI will cast the leftmost highest priority skill it has. In fact, there *has* to be one of three things - left most, right most, or random (there are several "random" - closest to last skill, true random (well, as true as you can get with a computer), furthest from last skill, etc).

Having both Jagged bones and Death Nova on a skill bar will have a necro running out of energy fairly quickly if you are not killing things quickly and have a fairly high Soul Reaping - the AI wants to keep them up 100% of the time regardless of position. Only use Death Nova if you are making a "minion bomber" in which you are not keeping an army up but are creating them just to die quickly and trigger a death nova.

Aerian_Skybane · Feb 08, 2007, 06:31 AM // 06:31

I use Master of Whispers because I have found his pathing with Minions is better, but I have used Olias with the same build to great effect.

Here is what I use (I hope you have DM maxed). (this build is for minions, my human MM has a slightly different build)

Flesh Golem | Horror | Fiend | BoTM | Verata's Sacrifice | Verata's Aura | Deathly Swarm | Res Sig

There is only one problem I have had: and that is Flesh Golem. Olias, and for some reason not as much (could be just luck) MoW, tend to be stupid and cast it even if there is one up, which is not fun because it can potentially take away an extra minion when at capacity when they cast it. Dont know if they can make an AI fix to this, but, if you are a good micro-manager ,you can disable while FG is alive. Still, i find it a weakness I am working on removing, but I just love seeing that guy pop out and wreak havoc.

To defend my use of Verata's Sac - The Heros manage their health pretty well, and I have found both of them do a great job of when to cast Verata's. I found significant increase in minion longevity after I added that, as opposed to my split thoughts on human MM use of the spell.

Verata's Aura has been a lifesaver I found, especially for Heroes. Heroes will die more than a human MM, thats a fact. And then there are 10 minions running around and it sucks. When ressing a MM hero, they will priority cast VA, and in short order the minions are pacified for the time being (unless disenchanted, but at that point Olias or MoW has already cast a couple more minions and gotten the minions back at the front line when they aggro again). It has been very useful in my hero builds.

I dont know how the rest of you keep their ai setting, but I keep them as MM on Agressive/Attack, not passive, since they will move into battle (with minions of course) quicker, and disengage like a real MM oddly I have witnessed.

Now, Olias and MoW as SS, well, thats a whole 'nother story...

Arduin · Feb 08, 2007, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosyfiep

wow my olias is a better mm than any of my characters could be....today I was watching him and even though he is only level 19 he had 10 minions going!.....not sure how since I have problems keeping 8 ------
cant wait to cap jagged bones so all of my olias' can use it (gotta get a toon with necro to the realm to cap it......)....and I usually make my olias' n/mo ---like to have another rezzer in the group.

Better use Order of Undeath, like Zinger pointed out. +5dmg for every minion...it's a killer ^^

Lykan · Feb 08, 2007, 06:59 PM // 18:59

I use Heroes for MM with no prob, although giving them death nova is a bad idea because that is all they will use, even stopping while you are moving and getting left behind. I do recommend giving him heal area if they have botm, they handle the saccing really well and always heal themselves up after. The only prob i notice is them not using jagged bones on every minion.

Zapper901 · Feb 08, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Tried it out last night with DN, he kept 9 minions up pretty much constantly (his max is 9 cause I'm not gonna spend 7k for a sup death rune, so he just has a major). Thanks again.

Feb 08, 2007, 12:45 AM // 00:45	#1
Zapper901 Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jan 2007 Guild: Fire and [ICE] Profession: W/	Olias as MM? I have tried making Olias a MM, but he seems to be terrible at it. He hardly ever animates anything unless I tell him to, and rarely uses BotM unless I tell him to. He spends his time spamming Death Nova on them most of the time. Is there a way to get him to MM better?

Feb 08, 2007, 06:31 AM // 06:31	#17
Aerian_Skybane Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Apr 2006 Guild: House of Caeruleous [HoC] Profession: R/E	I use Master of Whispers because I have found his pathing with Minions is better, but I have used Olias with the same build to great effect. Here is what I use (I hope you have DM maxed). (this build is for minions, my human MM has a slightly different build) Flesh Golem \| Horror \| Fiend \| BoTM \| Verata's Sacrifice \| Verata's Aura \| Deathly Swarm \| Res Sig There is only one problem I have had: and that is Flesh Golem. Olias, and for some reason not as much (could be just luck) MoW, tend to be stupid and cast it even if there is one up, which is not fun because it can potentially take away an extra minion when at capacity when they cast it. Dont know if they can make an AI fix to this, but, if you are a good micro-manager ,you can disable while FG is alive. Still, i find it a weakness I am working on removing, but I just love seeing that guy pop out and wreak havoc. To defend my use of Verata's Sac - The Heros manage their health pretty well, and I have found both of them do a great job of when to cast Verata's. I found significant increase in minion longevity after I added that, as opposed to my split thoughts on human MM use of the spell. Verata's Aura has been a lifesaver I found, especially for Heroes. Heroes will die more than a human MM, thats a fact. And then there are 10 minions running around and it sucks. When ressing a MM hero, they will priority cast VA, and in short order the minions are pacified for the time being (unless disenchanted, but at that point Olias or MoW has already cast a couple more minions and gotten the minions back at the front line when they aggro again). It has been very useful in my hero builds. I dont know how the rest of you keep their ai setting, but I keep them as MM on Agressive/Attack, not passive, since they will move into battle (with minions of course) quicker, and disengage like a real MM oddly I have witnessed. Now, Olias and MoW as SS, well, thats a whole 'nother story... Last edited by Aerian_Skybane; Feb 08, 2007 at 06:33 AM // 06:33..

Feb 08, 2007, 01:04 AM // 01:04	#2
CyberMesh0 Jungle Guide Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Charter Vanguard [CV] Profession: N/Me	I've never had any major issues, he uses my MM build quite well. Might just be that I don't use death nova, I don't know. None of his skills are deactivated, correct?

Feb 08, 2007, 01:06 AM // 01:06	#3
DeanBB Forge Runner Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Arizona Guild: Wizardry Players Guild, http://4guildwars.7.forumer.com	For heroes, arrange their skills from left to right in the order you want them used. Place the animates at far left then BotM, then whatever else. That way what you want them to do is prioritized by skill position. I don't use Death Nova either and have no trouble. How high is Soul Reaping, is he just running out of energy?

Feb 08, 2007, 01:07 AM // 01:07	#4
Kuldebar Valiturus Desert Nomad Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Garden City, Idaho Guild: The Order of Relumination (TOoR) Profession: R/	Heroes should work identically, AI-wise all things being equal... I use Master of Whispers and Olias as MM on different occasions, I don't recall any problems.

Feb 08, 2007, 01:52 AM // 01:52	#6
Hockster Banned Join Date: Jul 2005	Skill placement has no bearing on their priority. They use the skills based on code. But some skills aren't used very well. Heroes are terrible with Death Nova, just remove it form thier skillbar. Other than that they do an excellent job as MM's. When I run my own MM, I can't bring Olias along as I almost never get a corspe. He's just too fast.

Feb 08, 2007, 02:12 AM // 02:12	#7
sykoone Jungle Guide Join Date: Dec 2005 Guild: Mystical Chaos Profession: E/	I've tried running Olias as an MM and a minion bomber. He's always filled both roles perfectly for me.

Feb 08, 2007, 02:23 AM // 02:23	#8
Zinger314 Debbie Downer Join Date: May 2006 Profession: N/Me	Death Nova is not a MM skill! It's a minion bombing skill. Both are completely builds. The best MM skillbar for Olias is as follows: Animate Bone Horror Animate Bone Fiend Blood of the Master Order of Undeath (e) Signet of Lost Souls Leech Signet Power Drain Res Signet Everyone has the misconception that Death Nova is a must for MinioN mastery, whereas you only really need 2 skills; a Minion spell and BotM.

Feb 08, 2007, 02:52 AM // 02:52	#11
Zapper901 Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jan 2007 Guild: Fire and [ICE] Profession: W/	Thanks everyone, I'll take Death Nova off his bar. By the way, he was nowhere near running out of energy because I was doing Vizuna Square (which has alot of dying things). It was just he was spamming Death Nova as much as he could.

Feb 08, 2007, 03:04 AM // 03:04	#12
GloryFox Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Good ol' USA, where everyone else wants to be Guild: Now Plays World of Warcraft on Whisperwind	I agree with zinger (even though I use death nova sometimes ) Death nova creates issues for Olias as a MM.. Also I would look as see what order your skills are listed for Olias. HERO's seem to place levels of importance on where you place a skill on your skill bar. If you have Death Nova on hot key 1 then he will primarly place Death Nova on everyone and everything. Minion Spells BOTM then anything else.. Res SIG last of course.

Feb 08, 2007, 03:10 AM // 03:10	#13
Lonesamurai Furnace Stoker Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Cheltenham, Glos, UK Guild: Wolf Pack Samurai [WPS] Profession: R/A	Olias and Master of whispers are better than any human Minion master can ever be... because they can keep track of minion health bars

Feb 08, 2007, 04:09 AM // 04:09	#15
cosyfiep are we there yet? Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: in a land far far away Guild: guild? I am supposed to have a guild? Profession: Rt/	wow my olias is a better mm than any of my characters could be....today I was watching him and even though he is only level 19 he had 10 minions going!.....not sure how since I have problems keeping 8 ------ cant wait to cap jagged bones so all of my olias' can use it (gotta get a toon with necro to the realm to cap it......)....and I usually make my olias' n/mo ---like to have another rezzer in the group.

Feb 08, 2007, 06:10 AM // 06:10	#16
strcpy Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: One of Many [ONE]	Order of skills does matter, you can re-arrange most skill bars and they will behave differently. All things being equal going left to right seems to decrease in priority, though many spells have priority of near 100% - death nova being one of them. For instance, lets say you have both Heal Area and Karei's Healing Circle on your skill bar (yes, I know that would mostly suck - I picked them because they should have the same priority and same trigger) it will cast the one on the left first. In short, the AI will cast the leftmost highest priority skill it has. In fact, there has to be one of three things - left most, right most, or random (there are several "random" - closest to last skill, true random (well, as true as you can get with a computer), furthest from last skill, etc). Having both Jagged bones and Death Nova on a skill bar will have a necro running out of energy fairly quickly if you are not killing things quickly and have a fairly high Soul Reaping - the AI wants to keep them up 100% of the time regardless of position. Only use Death Nova if you are making a "minion bomber" in which you are not keeping an army up but are creating them just to die quickly and trigger a death nova.

Feb 08, 2007, 06:59 PM // 18:59	#19
Lykan Forge Runner Join Date: May 2005 Guild: StP Profession: R/	I use Heroes for MM with no prob, although giving them death nova is a bad idea because that is all they will use, even stopping while you are moving and getting left behind. I do recommend giving him heal area if they have botm, they handle the saccing really well and always heal themselves up after. The only prob i notice is them not using jagged bones on every minion.

Feb 08, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33	#20
Zapper901 Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jan 2007 Guild: Fire and [ICE] Profession: W/	Tried it out last night with DN, he kept 9 minions up pretty much constantly (his max is 9 cause I'm not gonna spend 7k for a sup death rune, so he just has a major). Thanks again.